Published on 21 November 2013 in InterviewMohammed Al-Hassani (author)
Abdulkareem Jadban (left), Abdulnasser Al-Khutri
Dammaj, asmall town in Sa’ada governorate has been engulfed in fierce fighting between two groups for over a month now, leading to dozens of casualties and limited access for humanitarian groups to enter the area. The sparring antagonists, the Houthis, a group Zaidi Shiites who have had control of Sa’ada for several years, and the Sunni Salafis, have both set-up checkpoints in the area, debilitating a flow of basic supplies in the area, including food and fuel. However, what has been labeled sectarian violence is also raising questions about deeper political and social divides as the fighting grows. Little reporting has emerged from the conflicted area, leading to speculated analysis of what is happening on the ground.
The Yemen Times spoke with Abdulkareem Jadban, a parliamentarian and Houthi leader, and Abdulnasser Al-Khutri, the assistant secretary general of the Al-Rashad (the Salafi policical party), to speak about the conflict in Dammaj and its political implications in Yemen.
Starting with Abdulnasser Al-Khutri, what is currently happening in Dammaj?
Al-Khutri: There are killings, blockades and destruction right now in Dammaj at the hands of a group that owns a diverse selection of light, medium and heavy weaponry, and they are targeting a minority that only has books and pens.
Abdulkareem Jadban, what is currently happening in Dammaj?
Jadban: Dammaj is a hub for terrorism and a gathering point for ‘takfereen’ (extremists) from different countries worldwide who incite sectarian conflicts. The U.S administration is planning to establish a Middle East they see fit by using those people. [Students in Dammaj] claim to be receiving a religious education, but they have replaced their religious books with RPGs, machine guns and other weaponry. More than 6,000 fighters have been brought from different countries worldwide for training on the various kinds of weaponry in Dammaj. Sa’ada has been blockaded and residents lack basic food items. All the while, terrorist organizations, along with tribal and religious groups, are calling for violence and are gathering people nationwide to get involved in a severe, sectarian war.
You mentioned armed foreigners. Are they the ones you are battling?
Jadban: They are part of the fighters and a part of those conspiring against Yemen and the Arab world in general. I think the jihadists who failed in Syria are coming to Yemen to ruin the country because they follow the U.S.’s orders.
Al-Khutri, what do you think of what Jadban said?
Al-Khutri: I wonder why such lies and contradictions are being repeated. People know that the late religious sheikh, Moqbel Al-Wadei, established a religious center in Sa’ada [Dar Al-Hadith Center] 30 years ago as a place many people from Yemen and other countries could go to receive Islamic education. Everyone knows that those students have never done anything wrong against Yemenis or taken up arms against anyone. They gather for educational purposes. As for the term, ‘takfereen,’ it’s repeatedly used by Houthis and was used in other countries such as Syria. There must be coexistence, the same way we coexist with non-Muslims such as the Jews. [Jadban] said those students traded in their religious books for weapons, but this is to be expected in order to defend oneself from someone who wants to kill you, force you out of your home and kill your children. Why hasn’t Jadban condemned the siege on Dammaj prior to the blockade on Sa’ada? Tribes in Dammaj have assisted [the Salafis].
Jadban, are you saying that [the Houthis] became involved in the conflict in Dammaj because some foreigners took up arms against you and attacked residents?
Jadban: Yes, these foreigners have been there for a while in the name of war. A friend of mine came from Algeria just days ago. He said he met some bearded men on the plane who told him they were going to Dammaj to study. Let us be realistic. Is this the right time to go to study? This is evidence that terrorists and extremists are mobilizing to wage war in Dammaj.
Isn’t it the state’s job [to monitor who comes in and out of the country]?
Jadban: The state does not exist.
But, the state says they are students, and they legally entered the country for educational purposes.
Jadban: Six wars were waged on Ansar Allah [the political wing of the Houthis] in Sa’ada, but we had no dispute with the Salfis. It was them who recently started the conflict, setting up checkpoints and slaughtering our brothers and friends just like they would sheep. This is not new. The Hashids [a powerful tribe that sympathize with the Salafis] held a meeting [one month ago]. Video footage [from the meeting] showed Hussein Al-Ahmar [a Hashid leader] saying they had learned lessons on how to slaughter the Al-Rafidha, a Shiite Muslim sect, meaning the Houthis.
Why are you against the Salafi Dar Al-Hadith Center continuing to teach either local or foreign students?
Jadban: We do not have a problem with the center now nor did we in the past, and everyone knows this. Moqbel Al-Wadei and his successors accused us of blasphemy. They have called those who belong to the Zaidi sect, polytheists. There are books in their center that are evidence of this. In spite of this, we have never prevented them from existing.
Let us come back to Abdulnaser. Who is responsible for changing the environment in Dammaj? It was a model of coexistence and acceptance for dozens of years.
Al-Khutri: First of all, if the Salafis had the intention of annihilating the Houthis, they would have done so during the six Sa’ada wars when the Houthis were in the mountains and caves. However, they did not want to [create war] and they did not have weapons. With regard to Jadban’s statement that the state does not exist [in the North], I would like to ask, ‘Are the Houthis ready to hand over their weapons to the state so that it can do its duty?’
Jadban, are you ready to hand over your weapons to the state so that it can completely rule over the governorate?
Jadban: Do you want us to hand over our weapons to the extremists and tribes that are causing the conflict? How do we hand over Sa’ada at a time when the state does not even exist in the capital, Sana’a? The state doesn’t even have influence in Hasaba. However, if the government were to exert its authority, we would give up our weapons. We mentioned this in the Sa’ada Issue report at the NDC in which the Salafis and the Houthis are taking part. We agreed that the state should have authority in all areas of the country, and everyone should hand over their weapons, both in the South and the North.
What do you think is the major factor behind the clashes between the Salafis and the Houthis in Dammaj?
Al-Khutri: There is a clear reason. It is the Houthis’ attempt to expand so they can rid Sa’ada of political and ideological opposition and make Sa’ada more like southern Lebanon—a small state or kingdom through which they can do whatever they want and be ideologically and politically unopposed.
What do you think about Abdulnaser’s statement?
Jadban: It is sheer fabrication. Why are we only focusing on the Houthis’ arms when the entire nation is awash with weapons? There are arsenals of weapons in Dammaj, Hasaba, Ma’bar and Arhab, as well as all areas of Yemen. Those who are fighting say they are knowledge seekers. If that were true, how could weapons being used in the fighting have reached them? Have they been preparing for this war for long? It is not true that the Salafis did not take part in the Sa’ada wars. They effectively took part in the sixth war and issued a fatwa against us because they believe that anyone opposing them is a disbeliever. The fatwa of Yahia Al-Hajori, the head of the Dar Al-Hadith Center, is well known.
Let me ask Abdulnaser, a picture was taken of armed students in Dammaj. What do you have to say about this picture?
Al-Khutri: Before answering your question, let me comment on what Jadban said. The Houthis say something but do the opposite. They said they refused to accept the Gulf Initiative, but they took part in the dialogue, which is based on the Gulf Initiative. They simultaneously attempt to please the dialogue participants and the ones who also rejected it. Although they are engaged in dialogue, [the Houthis] have their strong-holds in the Manbih district of Sa’ada and the Al-Ridhma district of Ibb. With regard to your question, there are a group of students in Dammaj. They have been besieged and killed by the Houthis. They have appealed for the state’s help, but the state has not done its job. So, they have no solution but to carry weapons for self-defense. Some tribesmen rushed to assist them and to join the cause. I assure you that if the Houthi siege on Dammaj is lifted, the students will put their weapons aside and return to their educations.
You, along with the Houthis, agreed to take part in the dialogue.
Al-Khutri: The Houthis have attempted to make sure the dialogue doesn’t succeed. Observers at the NDC sessions have seen this either through the Houthis’ protests, boycotts or [different] alliances with political powers. As I have said, dialogue is not their goal, they are using it as a cover to expand [their influence] and take on the opposition.
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